Quantum Leap with Renee Harrison

Renee Harrison: … For the industry. What if we dreamt even bigger without the fear of knowing what the theatre once was or without the imposter syndrome of the history that we have? What would that look like?

Yura Sapi: Releasing this fear, holding space for it, and allowing for us to not be guided by it.

Renee: We don’t because we don’t need to be. For radical thought, what if we allowed history to be history, to know that it is history, we’re fully aware of what it is, without having to give it a permanent place in our futures? We talk about dreaming bigger. It’s dream beyond what you know, dream about the post-liberation. Dream about all of that on the other side of it, because we know what the journey is. We’ve seen it. For some of us, we’re still in it. And realistically, we’re going to continue being in it until we decide to exist in the after of what liberation can look like. And there’s so many communities that actually do that. Pockets of what freedom looks like for people individually, “Oh, you’ve gotten past the point of your journey to towards liberation, like you’re in your liberation.” And how cool is that?

Yura: You are listening to Building Our Own Tables, a podcast produced for HowlRound Theatre Commons, a free and open platform for theatremakers worldwide. I’m your host, Yura Sapi, and I’m the founder of various organizations and projects including a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, a six-hectare farm and food sovereignty project, an LGBTQ+ healing and art space. And I’ve helped numerous creatives, leaders, and other founders unleash their excellence into the world through my programs, workshops, and coaching services.

In this podcast, I’m showcasing the high vibration solutions for you as a visionary leader to implement into your own practice and thrive. Stay tuned this season to hear from other founders who have built their own tables for their communities and for the world. in this evolutionary time on earth you are here for a reason. And I am so honored and grateful to support you on your journey, so stay tuned and enjoy.

Who are we really after our liberation? In today’s episode, I sat down with Renee Harrison, founder of Black Girls Do Theater, which is a cultural agency creating spaces for Black femme-identifying theatre artists. Black Girls Do Theater has collaborated with many of New York City’s largest cultural institutions to amplify the works of emerging artists in the theatre.

In this episode, Renee gets into this transitioning time where she’s just stationed in a new spot in Los Angeles and really looking at this moment of evolution in what is next for the future of Black Girls Do Theater, and really the future of the theatre industry at large, as we discuss in our role as creators and leaders in this space.

If you’re interested in how to quantum leap into a new timeline, this is the episode for you. We get into the support of the excitement from our inner child. We discuss some of the frustrations of the theatre industry and how we are actually working to overcome them. And we get into this visionary frequency that really charges you up with the support of anything is possible and you have the tools to do it. Go ahead and dive into this episode, be uplifted, and remember the incredible source of power you are.

Before we get into this episode, go ahead and hit subscribe on this podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on new episodes, and it helps build a thriving planet where all beings experience joy and harmony with each other and Mother Earth. So go ahead and hit subscribe and keep this good energy flowing.

Welcome to the podcast Renee. Thank you so much for being here.

Renee: Thank you, Yura. Thank you.

Yura: I love to start off this season asking everyone, if you were a superhero, what would be your origin story? What is that pivotal moment that led you to decide to forge your own path and build your own table?

Renee: If I were a superhero, my origin story would be, and is, when I was in university I was doing a production of a Winter’s Tale by William Shakespeare. And I remember looking around the room and wondering where I could go if I needed some extra support or questions about the industry. In that moment when I didn’t see it, that being the moment that I would’ve decided to become the superhero that I am today, humbly of course, then creating these spaces for other women like me, other young Black women who are emerging in the industry to have a space where they can chat and get together, and also share resources, and stories, and all of the things that are unique to our experience in this industry.

Yura: That’s beautiful. I’d love to hear about your reflections on this journey of creating your own space, your own resource support system, and how you are now in comparison to how you were when you started. Is there any advice you would give to that younger version of yourself?

Renee: Absolutely, I am infinitely better today. Let me just say that. And I say that with so much grace, and love, and care for all of the previous versions of myself that have been able to steward Black Girls Do Theater. In my very early days, I would tell her to dream even bigger. That’s number one. I would tell her to dream even bigger.

And as the journey continued, because Black Girls Do Theater, I think we’re reaching our seven-year mark soon. We’re a little kid, but we’re doing our thing. And around the three to five year mark, I would advise her to ask for help even when you don’t think you need it. Yes, there are so many people—especially in the last year and a half—there are so many people that have extended their resources, their time, and their efforts to making Black Girls Do Theater what it is today. And they had also previously expressed that they’ve been wanting to for such a long time, which is really embracing the community and making sure that you’re creating pockets of opportunity for people even if in that moment you don’t think that you need it because sometimes your gift, if not really all the time, your gift is the pathway for another person’s prosperity. That’s what I would tell the younger versions of myself, but I love me now, and I still love them. They did such a good job, so I’m grateful.

Yura: Yes, I love that. Definitely. I mean that gratitude, sending that love to our past versions of ourselves. I’d love to hear more about this advice that you’re offering, asking for help when you think you might not need it. What might that look like?

Renee: So I come from a very collaborative background. I am an actor. I went to university for my BFA in dramatic arts at The New School. And the program really fostered a collaboration first approach to all sorts of art making. And because of that, a lot of it has also been spread into the rest of my life. So I approach my friendships, my relationships as collaboration first. So in that thought of advising my younger self to seek help, even when you don’t need it is less about just bringing someone in for the sake of bringing someone in, but providing an opportunity for collaboration and growth for both parties, or all parties.

So that’s really where I’m leading from with that, because it’s so easy I think to, especially at the age that I started Black Girls Do Theater, which was around what, twenty, I want to say, and I’m now twenty-seven. Around that age it’s, “I can do anything.” And I can still do anything, but my understanding of all that I can do now is also rooted in what I know that I have around me in terms of care and community. At twenty, I was like, “I can do anything because I’m brilliant. I’m a genius,” and that was also true, but I do think that would have been a really beautiful opportunity to bring more people into that brilliance, and to also witness other people’s brilliance so that way I could have dreamt even bigger at the time.

Yura: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, right?

Renee: Yeah.

Yura: And I think it’s also exciting too to bring in those differing perspectives or opportunity for more ideas, like you said, an even bigger dream in these moments, because sometimes when we have an idea for a new project, or initiative, or organization, the idea would benefit off of having more people offering their wisdom, and their network, and connections, so I love that.

Renee: Exactly, yeah.

Yura: It’s so interesting you say dream bigger because I’m also a meditation teacher, and one of the big meditations of my kind of lineage of where I learned, it’s from the Dream Bigger Academy, and so a big part of our meditation, the first one that we do really is called the Dream Bigger Meditation, because it allows us to visualize our future self and also giving us that moment to say expand the dream even bigger than even our thinking right now. Just what would that look like?

Even when we do dream bigger, there’s even more out there that we might not know about, that it’s just asking the universe: give me this or something better.

Renee: What if, right?

Yura: Yeah, and giving us that opportunity to do that can really make a shift in what then comes through. Because also, even when we do dream bigger, there’s even more out there that we might not know about, that it’s just asking the universe: give me this or something better. And so leaving that room for the something better when it does show up to be able to say yes to it.

Renee: Yeah, that’s legit. Legit. A large part of the training that I received as an actor did hone in on meditation as a tool. There are quite a few exercises that I remember, green light meditation, visualization that you imagine a green light, and it helps you to put yourself back in your body. It’s so calm, so soothing. But also there is one that I did maybe in my sophomore year of college where I was presented with an opportunity to be in the room with all of the younger versions of myself.

And to witness all of the skills, tool, and experiences that all of them had that brought me forth as the artist that I am today. And it’s still something that I reference, especially when you’re receiving new work. And you’re like, okay, the seven-year-old version of Renee would’ve thought that this was the coolest thing in the world. And I could already see it and I can see the entire world, and that it’s so playful, and it’s childlike, and that’s the version of Renee that I’m going to bring forth in this moment and have her stand alongside who I am presently.

And it’s been so liberating, and I really mean that it’s been so liberating artistically because this work that we’re doing, whether with Black Girls Do Theater, or even with this beautiful podcast that you’ve created, and this beautiful community that you’ve created, we are dreaming like children. And we’re bringing forth all of that love, care, curiosity, and world building that children have innately, that as adults we have to fine tune to really ground ourselves.

Yura: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that’s so helpful to really call upon those inner child’s energies. I have definitely done a lot of inner child work and heard about it more in terms of healing traumas and things that were maybe negative, but I haven’t actually focused on the more positive or exciting side of what our inner child can bring and really honing in on them too into our adult life.

Renee: Yeah. You should try it.

Yura: Yeah, I think it’s definitely something comes naturally, but definitely the intentionality of it to say, “This is what I’m doing is beautiful.” And especially now the earth is going through this evolution, this transformation of what we as humans look like and need to be doing in our action to live more harmoniously as a planet. So I think this child’s energy, this play, this dreaming big, really opens doors for the impossible actually being possible and real.

Renee: Something has happened mentally for me in the last two years where leading in my new friendships I’m able to see the childlike-ness of my friends, and that creates such a beautiful opportunity for deepening the relationship but also keeping it fun. One of my really close friends, she’s like, “I’m talking to you because I see little Renee. And I’m going to talk to little Renee right now. I’m going to be as kind as possible because I know little Renee needs this.” And it really just creates, again, a beautiful opportunity to understand what loving people, loving the world, and loving community actually looks like when we think about the person as a full being with experiences long before the moment that we’re in and considering that in the moment. It’s beautiful. I love it. I love it so much.

Yura: Yes. I love the strategy and maybe it might have to do with the answer to my next question.

My next question is focusing on some of these aspects of the current theatre industry that are maybe quite frustrating or feeling like they are things that need to be changing, evolving. How do you envision we overcome these challenges?

As the rest of the world is shifting priority in terms of what culture, community, and influence looks like, I see that the theatre is trying to catch up, but I think that they can quantum leap it instead of journeying through it

Renee: I’ll start by naming some of the challenges that I think I see. The theatre has a… There’s tradition in the theatre. It has such an expansive history. And as with many things in the world, there comes a point where we do have to update and evolve, otherwise the industry may get left behind, or it creates some sort of tension between the evolution that’s happening in the rest of the world and the industry that doesn’t want to shift tradition.

As the rest of the world is shifting priority in terms of what culture, community, and influence looks like, I see that the theatre is trying to catch up, but I think that they can quantum leap it instead of journeying through it, if I may say as much. A big part of what we do at Black Girls Do Theater in addition to amplifying the voices of Black women theatre artists across the coasts right now is also having a discussion with collaborators about what it means to reach audiences, and what it means to reach audiences authentically and not just for the sake of the dollar.

The theatre is creating such beautiful work. We have more Black playwrights on Broadway and in the theatre industry, more artists of color overall that are producing more work on the American stage. That presents an opportunity for audiences who have never experienced this world, the world of theatre, to come forth and see themselves, but to also experience the joy and magic that is watching a live performance.

And we come in and we’re like, okay, here are some strategies to make sure that you’re creating relationships as opposed to just seeking some sort of financial gain, or some sort of cultural point by having people of color in the audience. The work that we’re seeing is the work of the future. And the work of the future is Black, it’s Asian, it’s Indigenous, it’s all these really beautiful stories that we haven’t had a chance to really marinate in. That’s a lot of the work that we do with Black Girls Do Theater is saying, “Okay, we’ll come help you to navigate this because you are well-meaning, and I know you want it beyond just the financial gain, and here’s some tips for how to do it.”

Yura: And how it’s playing the long game, not just for one show or one season, really looking for what does it mean to expand our reach of who is involved in our work, both, yes, on stage backstage, and part of the production, and also in the audiences, and donors. The studies are coming through and just sharing how the majority of people of color is what’s happening of people, and in that way too definitely consumers, people who are going to see shows and also eventually donors. And I think you’re absolutely right in terms of building these relationships, and providing quality content, providing stories that really engage, that really bring us to say we want more, and this is worth it. This is definitely something that I want to be a part of.

I love what you said too about this opportunity to quantum leap, so thinking about that future version of the theatre industry that we are looking to go to that may feel very far, what are the steps that we would take today to get us to that situation?

Renee: I think that a lot of the older theatre organizations can and should quantum leap. I think that they can do it, and I do say this with the understanding that they are also having to relearn what is happening culturally, but there are also resources. There’s so many young people, so many people who’ve been doing the work to create spaces where a diverse range of stories can exist, but also a diverse range of experiences can exist to create more comfortable spaces for everyone, that all they need to do is hire those people, and set aside some really intentional time to integrate that newness into the theatre organization, etc.

And I think that’s a solid quantum leap because sometimes there are moments where absolutely we should journey through things, right? We should slow and steady our way to the finish line. And also there are opportunities to do a complete makeover and move into something new without having to journey through it. And I think a lot of the older organizations can do that. I’ve been really blessed to be in rooms and spaces by way of one of my mentors and my fairy godmother of the theatre Lady Irene Gandy, where I’ve been able to watch as some of those organizations are doing quantum leap, that they’re saying we are committed to bringing in other communities, bringing in other community organizations and making them an intentional part of this theatremaking experience. And that has been very inspiring for me as someone who is also looking to change and inform, and help to evolve the culture of what theatre looks like today.

Yura: That’s so powerful. I think too of the way that sometimes we make art, sometimes yes. It’s like we work on pages every day or there’s progress that happens little by little, and then sometimes things just kind of come through in a burst of genius in one session. I’m just channeling basically everything through. And so I think that is so valid. And there’s this limiting belief that we can overcome by thinking, “Oh, everything has to happen in this incremental time. That’s the only way that progress can be done.” By really challenging that and saying, “What is that belief that might be holding us back from making this type of big impactful transformation,” in some ways, this feeling of overnight.

And people that have been doing this type of work already for a while, it seems like when we keep doing that, and we do our incremental work, and we just keep sticking to our vision, and sticking to our values and mission, there will be that certain point where there is that kind of shift automatically, or shift almost randomly it may feel, but it’s been a product of all of this work that we’ve been doing to build, that now people are shifting and almost themselves having that realization of actually this is what we need to be doing, and thankfully all these people have been doing all the work. Basically everyone’s who’s been on this podcast is one of those people, that when it comes the moment where the world is saying, “Okay, actually yes, what you’re doing is right. You were right. Let’s go to that,” that we’re here.

Are you ready to step into who you were born to be? As a certified soul purpose or dharma and spiritual life coach, I am so ready to guide you in this powerful transformation of your life. As a successful social entrepreneur, social innovator, I am so excited to support others this journey, because ultimately when we all thrive in our respective communities, our impact really multiplies exponentially. And it brings me so much joy to help creators and leaders like you unleash your incredible talents, skills, and destiny of who you’re meant to be for our planet in this time. I get to bring together all of my training in the business and arts management world, as well as the climate justice sector, and the healing and shamanic energy work initiations and certifications to really bring you into alignment and into full force movement for what you’re meant to be doing.

In my three-month coaching program, we’ll take a journey through your deepest desires and visions for the world to really harness in that future vision of what you’re bringing forth and call that into your understanding. You are such a powerful leader and I’m so excited to support you. So go ahead and check out my coaching services at liberarteinc.org. You can find the link in the show notes as well. Talk to you soon.

Renee: Yeah, and you know what they say? They say it takes ten years to be an overnight success, so imagine when we’re talking about organizations that have been around for seventy plus years, imagine what their overnight success could look like, especially in this space that we’re in culturally? You have the resources, you have the backing, you have the willpower, you have the name, you have the legacy. And so what if we were to put all of those things into a pot and then sprinkle in some new seasonings, the organizations like you and I, what beautiful of a creation could we make? And how impactful to the industry would that be?

So I’m really curious and I’m excited. I say all of this with a lot of excitement about what and how it’s all going to happen. Because you see increments, little sprinkles of it here and there. And it’s yeah, we’re going in the right direction. Okay, cool. Still got some other things that we need to work out, but for the most part we’re going in the right direction. Go work those things out. Let’s do the quantum leap and let’s really get this thing going. Let’s do it.

Yura: Let’s get into a little more of this what and how, especially as it relates to us as leaders, and creators, and listeners. If you might be feeling in this space of you’re already ready for that quantum leap, you maybe already are living that reality in your own world in some way. At least I know that’s true for me, I definitely have been guided and mentored in this visionary archetype of who I am, is that because we are so visionary and in this future world, that doesn’t mean that we are necessarily always sharing from that space, because not everyone all the time can really receive that in a way that doesn’t bring up, for example, a lot of fear or uncertainty. And so it’s very intentional when I get to share the visionary information, and with who, and what time, and what’s the moment because yeah, it’s seeing the future and you don’t want to scare someone by telling them this possibility.

So as this theatre industry is evolving, what do you think it’s asking us as creators and as leaders?

Renee: That’s a great question. My immediate thought is what would it look like if we weren’t relying on that to determine what this is. And I say that more specifically to say what would it look like if we dreamt without the harsh realities of history? This is actually something that I have been speaking frequently about for the last few weeks. I had just done a reading the other day at Roundabout Theatre directed by Autumn Angelettie. She is their Roundabout Directing Fellow. And all of the artists in the room, we were having a conversation about liberation, all inspired by this work, this beautiful and brilliant work by Daniel Koa Beaty called Emergency. A lot of the conversation was like, so much of the work that we see, even about Black stories, is tied to the journey towards liberation, but what about what happened after liberation happens? Where are the stories about that part, the post liberation?

That’s what I mean when I ask that question about what would it look like if we dreamt without the realities of the past, and we were just focused on the big, and the possibilities, and not the past informing the possibilities. Because there is room for that, right? When we talk about history and grounding ourselves, and our histories, there is an opportunity and there is room for it. And also for the industry, what if we dreamt even bigger without the fear of knowing what the theatre once was, or without the kind of imposter syndrome of it, of the history that we have? What would that look like? And so that’s the question that I’d be asking.

Yura: Yeah, I love that, releasing this fear, holding space for it and allowing for us to not necessarily be guided by it.

Renee: We don’t because we don’t need to be. It is a little bit of a radical thought just in the slightest, but what if we allowed history to be history and to know that it is history. We’re fully aware of what it is without having to give it a permanent place in our futures. I’d be curious to see what that looks like. We talk about dreaming bigger. It’s dream beyond what you know. Dream about the post-liberation. Dream about all of that on the other side of it, because we know what the journey is, we’ve seen it.

For some of us, we’re still in it. And realistically we’re going to continue being in it until we decide to exist in the after of what liberation can look like. And there’s so many communities that actually do that, pockets of what freedom looks like for people individually. And it’s, oh, you’ve gotten past the point of your journey towards liberation. You’re in your liberation. And how cool is that? That’s the question.

Yura: Yeah, it reminds me of a process that we went through for my organization, my nonprofit’s mission. So our organization is called LiberArte, liberation through the arts, talking about liberation. I was very focused on this mission of ending racial, social, climate, injustice through the arts, and that’s the important phrase to ground people in this current day, like you’re saying of what is it that has happened, and what is it that we’re trying to do, but it also does leave us in a certain standing point for what comes after, like you said.

And so we actually were able to come through with the help of a consultants group called BridgePeople. The mission and this vision too that we came through with was the thriving planet where all beings experience joy and harmony with each other and Mother Earth. It really brings in a different frequency of what that feels like in your body to be in that type of thriving planet where we’re all in harmony and with joy, with each other, and with the earth. Because to me that really is what is the issue. We’ve suffered from this disconnection to ourselves, to each other, to the planet, and that causes all of these injustices, all this disease, because we’re lacking that connection, and that understanding that we’re all tied as a planet. That has been a really big gate opener for us to understand more of what is it that we’re doing and how to get there.

A big part of what we do now is focused on creating those spaces where people can experience this future thriving planet in these pockets of spaces, like you’re saying. So we do a lot of festivals outdoors where people can experience art, and also with nature and with each other, and then see themselves in the work. And also supporting artists around the world who are doing this type of life work already. This year we’re bringing a music group, Afro-Colombian Music group from Nuquí Chocó in Colombia to the US for a tour after this whole process of being an artist in residence, and supporting them and developing their brand and artistry. And so it’s beautiful because we get to support them in their work, of course, and build their following and their brand, and of course just that experience of coming to the US to perform, but also they’re sharing their wisdom with people here and people around the world. And that’s really part of that exchange and understanding of what we get to do.

Yeah. We also have a farm, farm project that-

Renee: You’re so cool.

Yura: It definitely is deciding that I’m going to do my own thing, just going to live in basically another future version of the world and bring it in, help bring through a portal, bring this change in. And our farm is actually using part of over five million hectares, so that twelve million acres of land that has already been granted to African descendants in Colombia, and we’re using a piece of this land right now to return to traditional ancestral farming practices to end the food insecurity of the country, which of course disproportionately always affects Black and Indigenous communities.

And what’s exciting too is that we get to show the world what happens when you return land to Indigenous hands globally. And it’s interesting too because this change was made actually thirty years ago for the specific people that were harmed by these terrible things that happened before, this human trafficking, this genocide, and enslavement. Let’s give the land back, let’s do something here.

But like you said, it’s okay. There has been a liberation. There has been something that was changed with these colonial governments to say, let’s do that, but it isn’t the end place because there still is a lot to do. We still have to figure out, okay, we have this land, how do we use it? How do we get to that future thriving place? And so that’s a big part of what we get to do. We’re not part of the decision makers of governments to say, we can give land back, but we can help to make this change happen, and to see this ability to have a self-sustaining community with agency and with abundant resources, this richness, and not richness in Teslas and money, but richness in a good life, and having food, and having that ability to feel with self-determination of what is going on for our food systems, and what they’re able to feed us. Because food also is not only physical support, it also affects our mental and emotional wellbeing. I think definitely what you’re speaking of translates into so many ways.

Renee: Yeah. And that’s the right question to be asking. First of all, congratulations, right? That’s such a beautiful space to be in because it is the questioning. It is the, okay, now that we have this, what could this be? And that is where the future building begins. It’s from the moment that you ask that question. You’re already on the other side of conversation about liberation when you get to dream about what you want your world to look like, and I think that’s really this beautiful…

And that’s one of the major points that stuck out to me as you were speaking. You’re already in the future of what it is that you have created. You are already in it. It’s like up to the world to catch up, but that’s the world’s business. That’s the world’s problem. That’s not your problem. You can be aware of it, but it’s not your problem. Your task is to continue asking those questions, and seeing what comes up, and exploring what comes up, and trying and failing and trying again. That is all a part of the future building conversation. So you’re doing great. I just want to offer and amplify that. You’re doing great.

Yura: I definitely would love to hear more about what is next for you too.

Renee: So, Black Girls Do Theater is in a really exciting place, and I call it exciting in part because I’m trying to also remind myself that it is exciting even when it looks scary. We’re at the precipice of a completely new identity, and I say this because of the way that Black Girls Do Theater started, it was so tied to my journey as an actor. And as my life has progressed, Black Girls Do Theater has also gone through many changes as I have.

We’re standing at an intersection of having an identity and also having really big dreams, and we’re beginning to bridge the two, right? I consider Black Girls Do Theater to be one of those future building spaces. To me, it’s a future building space. We think about everything that could possibly go right first, and we operate in that, and I want to deepen that questioning and allow that questioning to inform the works that our hands produce. That’s a really big thing. I don’t exactly know yet what the full outcome is, but I am asking those questions first and then letting the journey, letting the trial and error be the thing that helps to sculpt out this new masterpiece.

So that’s where we are and I’m really thrilled. I’m excited. I’m here in LA. There’s also an opportunity now to really build out Black Girls Do Theater in Los Angeles because there is a need for it here. It’s just a matter of asking for help, dreaming bigger, asking those hard questions or asking those inspiring questions. Now that I have the world in front of me, or now that I have the city in front of me, what could this look like? Because I know what it’s like in New York, and New York is changing, but now that I’m in a new landscape, what exactly could this look like? Let’s try something. That’s where I am, and that’s where Black Girls Do Theater is. We’re growing together.

Yura: That’s amazing, and it sounds like it’s a really exciting place to stay updated, to stay following the journey because there’ll be new things coming through, and experiments, and things that we could be a part of. So let us know how we can support you, how we can follow the journey.

Renee: Yeah, of course. So of course you guys can follow Black Girls Do Theater on Instagram @BlackGirlsDoTheater, with an E-R ending. I know it’s controversial. People are like, “Why is it not R-E?” We actually have a post talking about that, which needs to be updated, so be on the lookout for that.

You can also just make sure to sign up for our newsletter, especially as we’re expanding programming across the United States. We were so lucky to be able to host our annual Ladies Night event, which is an opportunity for women to come together under the shared appreciation of the arts. We were able to do our second one overall, but our first one in Atlanta, so we will be expanding.

And two, support our little tote bags, these cute little babies. I designed them myself. It says, Support Black Girls Doing Theater, just as a little love note for the girls who are really out here trying, and trying to do their best in this industry that is quite frankly, very difficult to be in. The support, love, and care is always there, and so this is my gift to them.

Yura: Amazing. Thank you so much for these gifts and for all that you have done and are continuing to do. I’m so excited to stay on this journey with you too, and maybe there’s future collaborations in the works. So, thank you.

Renee: Yes, I see it. And thank you. Thank you so much. This has been a really fulfilling conversation. And as I’m standing in my very chaotic apartment… For the people listening, I just moved into a new place and there are boxes everywhere. As I’m standing in the midst of this, I feel even more empowered to ask that question of, what could this look like for me? What could this new space look like for me? And so I’m grateful to you for creating this opportunity, and yeah, thank you. Just, thank you.

Yura: This podcast is produced as a contribution to HowlRound Theatre Commons. You can find more episodes of this show and other HowlRound shows wherever you find podcasts. Be sure to search with the keyword HowlRound, and subscribe to receive new episodes. If you love this podcast, post a rating and write a review on those platforms.

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